Knuckle Review and Interview with Director Ian Palmer

Knuckle

Starring: James Quinn Mcdonagh, Michael Quinn Mcdonagh, Paddy Quinn Mcdonagh and Ian Palmer

Rated: R

Directed by: Ian Palmer

Director Ian Palmer documents 12 years in the lives of rival clans of Bare Knuckle Irish Traveler Boxers.

Most people when told about the subject matter of Knuckle will immediately think of Brad Pitt in Snatch, the “Pike” fighter who wanted a periwinkle blue caravan for his mum. While that is a work of fiction, Ian Palmer delivers an inside look into the real lives of Irish “Travelers” (Pike is a derogatory slang word). Focusing on rival clans, the Quinn Mcdonagh’s and the Joyce’s. Over the course of twelve years Ian chronicles the history of the feud as well as numerous looks at fights that until now were never allowed to be caught on tape. These are fights where the clans pool together large sums of cash and fight till one of the members quits, gets knocked out or the fight has gone on for so long with no clear winner (Fights can last multiple hours) that the only way to maintain family pride is a draw.

Ian delves into the source of the feuds and the video tapes that go back and forth taunting each other into another fight. Along the way we see the final Fights of James Quinn Mcdonagh and his move from fighter to ref as well as the evolution of Michael Quinn Mcdonagh, from outmatched an unskilled, to a fighter who can hold his own, On the flip side we are treated to footage of the Joyce clan including footage from colorful patriarch “Big” Jim Joyce.

Knuckle succeeds by delivering an inside look into a lifestyle that outsiders are not supposed to see, featuring characters that rival any work of fiction, there is something about having a firsthand look at a bare knuckle fight that ilicits a thrill that everyone can relate to.

Knuckle is the type of film that warrants repeat viewings, A visceral thrill that is extremely entertaining with a quotable vernacular that is distinctly its own, Knuckle is not to be missed.

Grade – 95

CH: What is the difference between a pike, a gypsy, and a traveler?

IP: A pike is a word in England for a Traveler, a Gypsy is different. Travelers are an ethnic group of people whose ethnic origins are Irish they can trace there families back through generations, hundreds if not thousands of years in Ireland. Gypsies are a group of people who originated through the Indian subcontinent and migrated around Europe and the world. They are two groups of people whose lifestyles and nomadic behavior is very similar but they don’t inter marry. A Pike is a Traveler but a Gypsy is altogether different.

CH: Is Pike a negative or derogatory term?

IP: Yeah pike is a derogatory term, I don’t know where it came from and it’s not used in Ireland very much, there are other derogatory terms used for travelers but Pike is one now, mostly because its appeared in the media. I don’t know why it is but god knows it is.

CH: When watching, these fights go on forever. Most professional fighters gas out and they have rounds and sit down. How is it that they are able to continue fighting for so long?

IP: That is a very good question, The main character in the film is James Quinn Mcdonagh, I followed him and his younger brother for 12 years or so, and the second fight of James’ that I filmed went on for two and a half hours, James and his opponent are not professional athletes, there obviously very strong, their arms are up squaring off with each other punching, in a farm yard for two and a half hours, how can they do that?. I can’t answer the question honestly, I know they both trained, James had 6 to 8 weeks off training the equivalent of a professional. In the training one of these boxers who was training him, he was a professional middleweight and James would be a heavy weight he’s about 6’2 to 6’3 about 220, 230 pounds. Even training with a middle weight, the middle weight was starting to hurt people punching with technique and power. They had a training and sparring session out in the open, the middle weight was most effective in the ring, in the gym. we filmed a training session in a farm yard, they were sparring away and the professional middleweight couldn’t handle it that well, in that environment, were talking rough terrain, there could be stones, there is no defined edge of the ring. There are no gloves. it’s a whole different procedure hitting someone with your hands or even a bandaged hand opposed to a glove. The Travelers this is a world there born and raised into if they end up fighting that is. This is their home their environment. the professional guy it wasn’t his environment at all, I think at that moment he had a huge amount of respect. Before he was thinking there not that great but he had a steep learning curve when they got him in that environment. How do they do it for starters? there representing their family name, it’s not just about proving who is the best fighter in the country it’s not about that at all its about representing your family against rival families and I think that’s a big incentive to keep going. There are very few people giving up in a disgraceful way, your either going to be knocked out or give up because you’re badly beaten or occasionally a draw. A lot of fights go on for forty minutes a half hour that isn’t uncommon.

CH: Outside of the DQ‘s in the film were there any others you filmed over the entire period?

IP: There are two in the film. The first, young Michael Quinn Mcdonagh, the whole film starts at his wedding, he was the first traveler I met because I knew the girl he was getting married too and he fought a year later against his cousin, whose family name is Joyce. Michael fought his cousin, same age but different size. He wasn’t trained to fight at the time but in frustration, because he couldn’t reach the guy and was getting overpowered by this guy he ended up biting and kicking him and getting disqualified and disgracing himself. The second in the film is two old guys fighting, James being referee at that stage having graduated from being a fighter to a referee. Two old guys one from the Joyce’s the other from the Nevins. Mid 50′s heading to 60 the two of them both grandfathers. The Joyce guy was winning it and both were ferocious in their time. Big Joy Joyce decided the only way to draw blood from the guy was to bite him and he took a chunk out of his ear, And actually the fight went on after that, initially he was disqualified but his opponent waved him back in and they continued at it. Then he took another chunk again out of the ear. And James was the referee so he put him out of it. So that was the second disqualification. I am sure there were others but nothing strings to mine like the two.

CH: Why is it, that two rivals a lot of money on the line, videos going back and forth taunting, how is it that they have rules, they don’t take people to the ground. They just punch till the other can’t do it anymore.

IP: The kind of boxing they do is the kind of boxing you would have found in the 19th century. John L Sullivan in America fought the last bare knuckle fight in America against Jack Kilrain it went on for 20 to 30 rounds. They were stripped to the waist, nothing on their hands. They had a round system but nothing like the contemporary boxing. They fought and fought for hours. Travelers are organized in there fights in a continuation of that kind of fighting. Each fighter brings their own ref. so there are two. They organize their own fights hold money. Once the fighters arrive at the location which could be a country road, a lane blocked off by cars, a farm yard. I never filmed a fight indoors it’s always outdoors, filmed in the middle of Dublin next to the Guinness brewery, if you name It I filmed there. No punching below the waist or head butting and then you’re going to fight with no breaks, no rounds and fight until one man is knocked out or one man submits and says he’s had enough, and you really have to hold your hand out to submit, that’s the traditional way. Once each fighter is given a reasonable account, the refs bring them together and ask if they have had enough, do they want to call a draw, its part of the honor code. It’s better for both families if they can walk away with their heads held high. But more likely it ends with a man submitting.

CH: It seems like the families pool together large sums of money. What happens to the community when they lose a substantial amount of money. Are the people upset with the fighter?

IP: I have never seen them come back negative, the first fight that had money on it which is the first fight in the documentary, James is fighting Paddy “The Lurcher” Joyce, named “The Lurcher” because a Lurcher in Ireland is a breed of a Grey Hound racing dog and he was nicknamed after the dogs he bread. There was a wager of 20k Irish pounds in 1997 that’s a lot of money then. James won so the other guy lost, the other guys family lost. In one of these big bets everyone is chipping in from the family 20, 30, 40 people and they might be just putting in 500 each so it’s not going to cripple them. Paddy “The Lurcher” lost and what I heard was that he was beaten quite badly afterwards by his own side to. The ones who are going to lose substantial money are the fighters; they put in more than the rest.

If there’s going to be substantial money they put in a deposit and they call it kicking money and it’s like a non refundable deposit, so if we were going to fight we each put in a thousand and if I pull out even through injury you get it, so it’s a big incentive to stay in there.

The last fight in the film had one heck of a lot of money on it. We won’t say what happened in the fight but let’s put it this way there was 180k Euros which is about a quarter million dollars, half from each side. And if you think of any group of people losing half a quarter million dollars, that’s going to take a big bite out. That would cause big problems if that amount is lost. Really you’re going to have to fight again, that type of thing will prolong a fight. I began filming when money came into it and coincidentally it has gotten more complicated with money involved. Money corrupts the whole process.

CH: Who started the clans fighting? How far back does it go?

IP: How far back it goes, you’re talking generations. They could give stories from the 60′s going back 50 years. If you go back 50 years and you were talking to the same family they would most likely say it went back 50 years before that.

These feuds in traveler culture, they happen between specific families. These families are closely related. Travelers operate with arranged marriages or they have a big say in the marriage and particularly they marry specific families. A very inbred group of people. It’s not like there’s a championship of Ireland between Travelers, the feuds happen within a very restricted circle of family names.

CH: How far into the process did you realize you had something that you could make a film about.

IP: I didn’t take off in 97 thinking I am going to spend the next 12 years of my life making a film on bare knuckle fighting and Travelers. I set out for two to three years and I wanted to spend a long time doing that. I did think I had a story and an arc of a story much more focused on James. I lost backing so I had freedom it was a double edge sword. I had no deadline so it led me to continuing because it’s a linear process it’s difficult to find a satisfying arc in terms of narrative film making, and just a way of telling the story that made sense. I filmed so long I had charted the story of a generation, instead of an individual man James Quinn Mcdonagh, I ended with the story of a generation and for me, that felt much more satisfactory it’s not about individuals it’s about representing your family and generations repeating the same circle and cycle.